OT: Written communication (Was: Re: Quick enable/disable user account.)

[rauch.holger at googlemail.com]

Hi Alan,

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011, Alan DeKok wrote:

> [...]
>   Or, the OP could have read the FAQ about "disabled" users.  A simple
> text search for "disable" would have produced an example.

Like I mentioned in my response to Arran, the OP didn't mention whether he
had tried anything by himself before posting to this list. Maybe he tried it
but he couldn't figure out what the example was telling him (but then he
could have mentioned it in his mail)?

> [...] 
>   Yes.  That's the correct response to questions like "I'm too lazy to
> read the docs, so you need to suggest multiple ways of solving this
> problem".

Same like in the post to Arran: inferring that people are "too lazy" because
they haven't mentioned their own effort is not right, IMHO. I'm NOT trying
to protect him; all I'm asking for is to be fair to the OP and ask him about
his own effort first (i.e. check his honesty). If he then admits that he
really hasn't done anything you can still come up with responses like "try
harder" (or, better in such a particular case, ignore his post because then
it's clearly obvious that he indeed was "too lazy"). Still better (in such a
case), unsubscribe him from the list.

(I honestly admit that this is OT and has nothing to do with FreeRADIUS, but
rather with ways of communicating with each other, especially in writing (be
it mailing list, be it forums or other means of free support).
Judging from my own experience, many misunderstandings can be avoided by
taking the written word literaly and in case something is not mentioned,
ask for it.

Assuming anything without knowing for sure may be understandable (as you've
probably seen quite a few of similar posts), but it doesn't necessarily mean
that such an assumption is always correct.

>   After 10+ years on this list, I know what the next step is.  "Oh, you
> gave me multiple solutions, but I don't want to do any of them because
> of ther information I've kept secret until now.  Please suggest other
> solutions."
> 
>   i.e. if you can't be bothered to do any work to help yourself, we
> can't be bothered either.

Please see my paragraph above. I can understand that you are fed up with
having to read a post that reads so similar like the many others you
probably had to read in the past. But still it's not a good idea to assume
that everybody who hasn't included detailed information about his own
effort actually is "too lazy" reading the docs (it may apply in quite a few
cases, but not in all of them).
 
>   That should probably be in the FAQ, or in the auto-sig for this list.

IMHO, the auto-sig would be the more appropriate place since then it would
be visible in the very first mail one gets after having been properly
subscribed to this list. A pointer to the mailing list guidelines might also
be useful.

> [...]
>   Explain *why* it's ridiculous.  I'd love to know.

- It doesn't provide any information (as it's far too general)

- It won't "educate" the OP to actually "behave better" the next time (since
  - in his point of view - he's most likely not aware of the fact that one
  has to clearly point out his own effort(s) in order to make it obvious to
  all list members that he indeed "tried hard enough" to solve his problem
  (in the sense of having read the available FAQ and other docs and not
  having found ways of solving the particular problem in there)

  IMHO, a possible way of educating such users is to tell them once that
  they are supposed to include information on as to what steps they've taken
  to solve the problem on their own. If the OP fails to do so three times,
  unsubscribe him from the list with a clear message in the unsubscription
  mail.

> [...] 
>   Cue crying about how mean Alan is.

Like I mentioned in my first post: I highly value your technical knowledge
about and work for FreeRADIUS. But what's the use of a statement like the
one you gave above???

I don't consider you "mean" (since I didn't say it). All I'm saying is
this: it would probably make everybody's life easier if less assumptions,
interpretations, etc. took place on mailing lists. Please think about it.
(I didn't "cry", either. It would really help if you take people's concerns
seriously. Please try to take that into account.)

TIA & greetings,

   Holger
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