Beginners, Re: Simultaneous login Issue on Freeradius

[Alan DeKok]

Kirk Wallace wrote:
> There is a vast area of knowledge between getting started and having
> years of radius experience.

  There's also a big difference between people who *try* and people who
don't.  The documentation isn't perfect, but text like "run the server
in debugging mode" is scattered EVERYWHERE.  Yet there's a continual
stream of people who ask questions *without* doing this.

  Then there are the people who ask questions, and argue over the
answers.  I have no clue why people "ask the experts" for help, and then
tell the experts that their answers are wrong.  It's retarded.

> I really do appreciate the effort people put into these free open-source
> projects ... what might help is
> a 2 x 4 to the head link on the main webpage taking beginners to content
> or links covering the very basics of what Freeradius is, why should we
> care,and in what situations it might be appropriate.

  Great!  Submit some documentation.  I won't hold my breath.

  After 10 years of doing this, I can honestly tell you that pretty much
everyone who suggests "better documentation" doesn't have the time or
interest to do it themselves.  The result is that the suggestion is a
request for *us* to do more work.

> With modern Linux
> distributions many users will never see a README or INSTALL file let
> alone wonder what they are.

  The "man" page gets installed.  It suggests what to do.  All
distributions install the README's in a documentation directory.  Maybe
people can try looking there.

> With Freeradius able to run on many OS's,
> who knows what contexts a beginner will bring with them.

  Context is almost irrelevant if people have the *methods* to be able
to learn.

  I don't know anything about a lot of subjects.  But I can go to a
library and ask.  I can search google for answers.  I can read
documentation, and ask questions saying "what does this mean?"

  That is the *minimal* ability we expect here.  People who follow that
behavior get polite responses.  They get quick bug fixes.  People who
don't follow that behavior get told bluntly that they need to change
their methods.

> Some here may say "Well, I got myself through the gauntlet, others
> should too". The problem is that a gauntlet is a test. I believe more
> beginners will become users by taking a journey rather than a test. The
> more beginners can take themselves along the journey the fewer repeated
> questions will turn up here on the list.

  I'd very much like to believe that.  The problem is that there will
*always* be a set of people who aren't interested in anything other than
regurgitated documentation on the list.  The *proper* response to them
is to be blunt.

> Newly successful users could be a good asset for creating a beginners
> starting point. Not that I expect to get a free ride, but I can get
> further along the journey, sooner, with a little self-help guidance.

  Which is what's being done here, quite frankly.

  Some people make it clear that they haven't bothered to read any of
the existing documentation, or that they haven't bothered to follow the
instructions on this list.  Why should we give "self-help guidance" in
those situations?  They've made it clear that they're not interested in
helping themselves.  Should we fight their laziness, and convince them
that they need to do work to solve their problem, and *then* also help
them with any technical issues?

  I think not.  If someone can't be bothered to help themselves, we
can't be bothered to help them, either.  It's tough, but any other
response is madness.

  Alan DeKok.