FreeRADIUS CVS->{BZR,Hg} migration consideration
In order to have a look at how something like Bazaar-ng (which seems to have come out on top after consideration for my significantly smaller projects) or Mercuirial (which is optimised towards larger projects, and might suit FreeRADIUS nicely) will handle the importing of current the FreeRADIUS CVS repository, I propose to run a read-only parallel repository in either or both of the above on my own server, syncing against the FreeRADIUS CVS server. I'm planning to use tailor [1] to do the initial conversion and regular pulls. I'd then offer rsync, http and *web access as appropriate (although I've never tried it for Mercurial and only just set it up for bazaar-ng) for the curious to see what sort of difference it makes. However, the initial pull will produce pain for cvs.freeradius.org I expect, so I'd like to know if there's a particular time window which would be better for the cvs.freeradius.org box to be hammered upon by me doing this. (And be sure the time window is in UTC. I'm in Australia, so I don't want a TZ mistake to cause me to bring something grinding to a halt in front of someone's CEO. ^_^) (Alternatively, I could work off a copy of the CVS repository for a given point in time, but that's more effort for the server admins, and so I consider it optional. tailor can use pserver from the look of things.) I'm also open to other suggestions of versioning software to use, although I'm really only familiar with CVS in usage, and have been reading about git and bzr recently. One of (in fact, the main) reason I'm doing this is that it makes branches cheaper, so I can branch off my own Debian packaging work, and only push it up when I make a fix that belongs in the FreeRADIUS repository as well as in the Debian archive. I'm not really satisfied with the way I handled this between 1.0.4 and 1.0.5, although dpatch improved it immensely over 1.0.3 and earlier. ^_^ [1] http://darcs.net/DarcsWiki/Tailor -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Paul "TBBle" Hampson, MCSE 8th year CompSci/Asian Studies student, ANU The Boss, Bubblesworth Pty Ltd (ABN: 51 095 284 361) Paul.Hampson@Pobox.Com Of course Pacman didn't influence us as kids. If it did, we'd be running around in darkened rooms, popping pills and listening to repetitive music. -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.1/au/ -----------------------------------------------------------
On Sep 13, 2005, at 1:28 PM, Paul TBBle Hampson wrote:
In order to have a look at how something like Bazaar-ng (which seems to have come out on top after consideration for my significantly smaller projects) or Mercuirial (which is optimised towards larger projects, and might suit FreeRADIUS nicely) will handle the importing of current the FreeRADIUS CVS repository, I propose to run a read-only parallel repository in either or both of the above on my own server, syncing against the FreeRADIUS CVS server.
I'm planning to use tailor [1] to do the initial conversion and regular pulls. I'd then offer rsync, http and *web access as appropriate (although I've never tried it for Mercurial and only just set it up for bazaar-ng) for the curious to see what sort of difference it makes.
However, the initial pull will produce pain for cvs.freeradius.org I expect, so I'd like to know if there's a particular time window which would be better for the cvs.freeradius.org box to be hammered upon by me doing this. (And be sure the time window is in UTC. I'm in Australia, so I don't want a TZ mistake to cause me to bring something grinding to a halt in front of someone's CEO. ^_^)
Let's say 3-5am Central US time ( GMT - 5 ). How much of a 'pain' are you talking about here? Can you clarify exactly what you need to do? It is possible for me to send you a tarball of the cvs repository, which might make it easier than trying to bludgeon the cvs server. :)
I'm also open to other suggestions of versioning software to use, although I'm really only familiar with CVS in usage, and have been reading about git and bzr recently.
We've actually started playing with SVN internally here at my work. That and CVS are what I've had experience with. Not that heavy into branching/ etc. so I can't comment on that aspect of SVN in relation to CVS. -Chris -- Chris Parker Director, Engineering StarNet A Service of US LEC (888)212-0099 Fax (847)963-1302 Wholesale Internet Services http://www.megapop.net VoiceEclipse, The Fresh Alternative http://www.voiceeclipse.com NOTICE: Message is sent IN CONFIDENCE to addressees. It may contain information that is privileged, proprietary or confidential.
On Tue, Sep 13, 2005 at 01:48:10PM -0500, Chris Parker wrote:
On Sep 13, 2005, at 1:28 PM, Paul TBBle Hampson wrote:
In order to have a look at how something like Bazaar-ng (which seems to have come out on top after consideration for my significantly smaller projects) or Mercuirial (which is optimised towards larger projects, and might suit FreeRADIUS nicely) will handle the importing of current the FreeRADIUS CVS repository, I propose to run a read-only parallel repository in either or both of the above on my own server, syncing against the FreeRADIUS CVS server. I'm planning to use tailor [1] to do the initial conversion and regular pulls. I'd then offer rsync, http and *web access as appropriate (although I've never tried it for Mercurial and only just set it up for bazaar-ng) for the curious to see what sort of difference it makes. However, the initial pull will produce pain for cvs.freeradius.org I expect, so I'd like to know if there's a particular time window which would be better for the cvs.freeradius.org box to be hammered upon by me doing this. (And be sure the time window is in UTC. I'm in Australia, so I don't want a TZ mistake to cause me to bring something grinding to a halt in front of someone's CEO. ^_^)
Let's say 3-5am Central US time ( GMT - 5 ).
How much of a 'pain' are you talking about here?
A hammering on pserver as I pull not just history, but do it multiple times to get the system up to date as well as work out how best to use Tailor. Ideally and eventually, I'd want to pull the entire FreeRADIUS history, which just screams "pain" to me. (The pull, not FreeRADIUS's history. ^_^) And once I've gotten this sort of thing going, then I have a local repository I can autobuild FreeRADIUS against regularly, without generating extra pain in traffic. (A bonus feature! Hooray!)
Can you clarify exactly what you need to do? It is possible for me to send you a tarball of the cvs repository, which might make it easier than trying to bludgeon the cvs server. :)
If you're willing to do that, it would be much easier, and I suspect better. I could also practice with Tailor on a faster machine than my web server. ^_^
I'm also open to other suggestions of versioning software to use, although I'm really only familiar with CVS in usage, and have been reading about git and bzr recently.
We've actually started playing with SVN internally here at my work. That and CVS are what I've had experience with. Not that heavy into branching/ etc. so I can't comment on that aspect of SVN in relation to CVS.
The main reason I've rejected Subversion so far (despite having actually been leaning towards it twelve months ago, last time I raised this) is that it's not distributed. It basically fails to meet my usecase, of not polluting upstream with Debian-specific detail like not llinking OpenSSL. I also think it doesn't solve the problem that I keep three or four copies of FreeRADIUS checked out locally (head + patches to break various things, a clean copy of head, release_1_0 are permanent residents at the moment. A Debian branch would make four) and they all hammer upon the upstream server. If I maintain a local branch of the remote repository, I can then branch off _that_ meaning I only need to update against the remote branch once each. And a brief consideration of svk (which appears to be distributed svn?) scared me right off. I must say SVN is a good migration path for a centralised system, and I can't say that FreeRADIUS has worked _poorly_ with a centralised model. Hence my trialling of several repositories. I'll add Monotone to my list of programs to try, at Alan's suggestion. I will also add SVN, but that might take more time to set up access to, as I believe it needs its own modules to serve. (Then again, so might Monotone and Mercurial. ^_^) I have to say one of the tasty tasty things about bazaar-ng over CVS (or SVN?) is the repository all likes in a .bzr directory in the head, so an export is simply a tarball ignoring that directory. I have a suspicion this makes pulling a sub-part of a respository more painful if not impossible, mind you. And the relative youth of bazaar-ng is an issue right now, although Canonical are driving its development with actual money, as they want to move to it ASAP. However, the on-disk format is being replaced with the final release format for the next release. So it's a little in flux. ^_^ -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Paul "TBBle" Hampson, MCSE 8th year CompSci/Asian Studies student, ANU The Boss, Bubblesworth Pty Ltd (ABN: 51 095 284 361) Paul.Hampson@Pobox.Com Of course Pacman didn't influence us as kids. If it did, we'd be running around in darkened rooms, popping pills and listening to repetitive music. -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.1/au/ -----------------------------------------------------------
Paul TBBle Hampson <Paul.Hampson@Pobox.com> wrote:
If you're willing to do that, it would be much easier, and I suspect better. I could also practice with Tailor on a faster machine than my web server. ^_^
I can get you a tar file, too. I've occasionally rsync'd the repository in the past.
The main reason I've rejected Subversion so far (despite having actually been leaning towards it twelve months ago, last time I raised this) is that it's not distributed.
And it has *huge* dependencies.
It basically fails to meet my usecase, of not polluting upstream with Debian-specific detail like not llinking OpenSSL.
If the FreeRADIUS developers agree that linking with OpenSSL is OK, then it's OK. I'll post a separate message, and based on feedback, update the LICENSE file.
If I maintain a local branch of the remote repository, I can then branch off _that_ meaning I only need to update against the remote branch once each.
Monoton does inter-branch diff's & merges *very* nicely
I'll add Monotone to my list of programs to try, at Alan's suggestion. I will also add SVN, but that might take more time to set up access to, as I believe it needs its own modules to serve. (Then again, so might Monotone and Mercurial. ^_^)
Monotone has it's own DB. Hmm.. I'll see if I can set up a monotone repository on one of my machines, and keep it updated via a cron job. Alan DeKok.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2005 at 11:35:49AM -0400, Alan DeKok wrote:
Paul TBBle Hampson <Paul.Hampson@Pobox.com> wrote:
If you're willing to do that, it would be much easier, and I suspect better. I could also practice with Tailor on a faster machine than my web server. ^_^
I can get you a tar file, too. I've occasionally rsync'd the repository in the past.
A tarball's prolly best. An rsync would generate unneccessary CPU load I expect, at least for the initial pull.
The main reason I've rejected Subversion so far (despite having actually been leaning towards it twelve months ago, last time I raised this) is that it's not distributed.
And it has *huge* dependencies.
Eww. OK, Subversion's off my list again.
I'll add Monotone to my list of programs to try, at Alan's suggestion. I will also add SVN, but that might take more time to set up access to, as I believe it needs its own modules to serve. (Then again, so might Monotone and Mercurial. ^_^)
Monotone has it's own DB.
Hmm.. I'll see if I can set up a monotone repository on one of my machines, and keep it updated via a cron job.
Oh good, that'll save me doing so. ^_^ -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Paul "TBBle" Hampson, MCSE 8th year CompSci/Asian Studies student, ANU The Boss, Bubblesworth Pty Ltd (ABN: 51 095 284 361) Paul.Hampson@Pobox.Com Of course Pacman didn't influence us as kids. If it did, we'd be running around in darkened rooms, popping pills and listening to repetitive music. -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.1/au/ -----------------------------------------------------------
Paul TBBle Hampson <Paul.Hampson@Pobox.com> wrote:
A tarball's prolly best. An rsync would generate unneccessary CPU load I expect, at least for the initial pull.
Ok. I'll get you a tarball. I did a "monotone cvs_import" from my copy of the CVS root. 5 minutes later, I had a 64M monotone database with the full CVS history & branches. Very, very, nice. Aln DeKok.
Paul TBBle Hampson <Paul.Hampson@Pobox.com> wrote:
In order to have a look at how something like Bazaar-ng (which seems to have come out on top after consideration for my significantly smaller projects) or Mercuirial (which is optimised towards larger projects,
I've been using Monotone with good results. It depends on "libboost", which has a retarded build system, but the resulting monotone binary is small. Subversion depends on *everything*, which troublesome. I haven't used Bazaar-ng or Mercurial, though.
and might suit FreeRADIUS nicely) will handle the importing of current the FreeRADIUS CVS repository, I propose to run a read-only parallel repository in either or both of the above on my own server, syncing against the FreeRADIUS CVS server.
Migrating away from CVS would be a good idea.
One of (in fact, the main) reason I'm doing this is that it makes branches cheaper, so I can branch off my own Debian packaging work, and only push it up when I make a fix that belongs in the FreeRADIUS repository as well as in the Debian archive.
I agree. I've been using monotone as a distributed development version-control system. Once the updates are done, then merging them back into the CVS head. My only opinion here is that I don't want to use subversion... Alan DeKok.
Alan DeKok wrote:
Paul TBBle Hampson <Paul.Hampson@Pobox.com> wrote:
I propose to run a read-only parallel repository in either or both of the above on my own server, syncing against the FreeRADIUS CVS server.
Migrating away from CVS would be a good idea.
I'm not against the idea, but I'm well satisfied with CVS. It's a well known tool, and widely spread. It sure lacks features, but there isn't many developpers committing code (no problem to merge versions), and there isn't more than two active branches (the stable release and the head). I don't mind keeping two local copies of the repository. -- Nicolas Baradakis
Nicolas Baradakis <nbk@sitadelle.com> wrote:
I'm not against the idea, but I'm well satisfied with CVS. It's a well known tool, and widely spread. It sure lacks features, but there isn't many developpers committing code (no problem to merge versions), and there isn't more than two active branches (the stable release and the head). I don't mind keeping two local copies of the repository.
Monotone still helps. I don't think I'll shut down CVS, but adding a parallel monotone server would be handy. It would also enable people outside of the server to set up their own repositories, and to send patches back as monotone changes, rather than "diff"s Alan DeKok.
On Thu, Sep 15, 2005 at 03:14:08PM +0200, Nicolas Baradakis wrote:
Alan DeKok wrote:
Paul TBBle Hampson <Paul.Hampson@Pobox.com> wrote:
I propose to run a read-only parallel repository in either or both of the above on my own server, syncing against the FreeRADIUS CVS server.
Migrating away from CVS would be a good idea.
I'm not against the idea, but I'm well satisfied with CVS. It's a well known tool, and widely spread. It sure lacks features, but there isn't many developpers committing code (no problem to merge versions), and there isn't more than two active branches (the stable release and the head). I don't mind keeping two local copies of the repository.
Ah, but I want to (for example) run a Debian-archive branch as well, in order to keep Debian-archive-specific things (such as the current situation with OpenSSL, which may or may not be mitigated with a license exception, as I believe other dependanded-upon GPLd libraries need to carry the exception too... I'll check this when it becomes relevant.) I don't think it makes an awful lot of sense to keep this in the main FreeRADIUS tree, since I pretty much expect to be (for the moment) the only one using it. Certainly this doesn't neccesitate the upstream repository to convert from CVS, but it's certainly worth an investigation. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Paul "TBBle" Hampson, MCSE 8th year CompSci/Asian Studies student, ANU The Boss, Bubblesworth Pty Ltd (ABN: 51 095 284 361) Paul.Hampson@Pobox.Com Of course Pacman didn't influence us as kids. If it did, we'd be running around in darkened rooms, popping pills and listening to repetitive music. -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.1/au/ -----------------------------------------------------------
Paul TBBle Hampson <Paul.Hampson@Pobox.com> wrote:
Ah, but I want to (for example) run a Debian-archive branch as well, in order to keep Debian-archive-specific things
Monotone sounds useful, then. I'll talk to Chris & see if I can get something set up on cvs.freeradius.org.
I don't think it makes an awful lot of sense to keep this in the main FreeRADIUS tree, since I pretty much expect to be (for the moment) the only one using it.
With monotone, you can sync to an external repository, and then keep a purely local repository for your changes. If anyone else needs to see your changes, you can push the changes directly to them, including history & log messages. Alan DeKok.
Paul TBBle Hampson wrote:
I don't think it makes an awful lot of sense to keep this in the main FreeRADIUS tree, since I pretty much expect to be (for the moment) the only one using it.
I always build FreeRADIUS with the command "dpkg-buildpackage", so I'm very happy to have the debian files in the main tree. -- Nicolas Baradakis
On Sat, Sep 17, 2005 at 06:27:35PM +0200, Nicolas Baradakis wrote:
Paul TBBle Hampson wrote:
I don't think it makes an awful lot of sense to keep this in the main FreeRADIUS tree, since I pretty much expect to be (for the moment) the only one using it.
I always build FreeRADIUS with the command "dpkg-buildpackage", so I'm very happy to have the debian files in the main tree.
True, and I plan to keep them there. However, I expect you want to build a version for local use, not for distribution, and so you don't want the code that disables OpenSSL-using modules and removes the RFCs with the non-DFSG copyright etc. If you _do_ want that, and want whatever's in my tree but not yet in Debian, you'll be able to get to my tree as a repository once we are using something that's better-distributed than CVS. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Paul "TBBle" Hampson, MCSE 8th year CompSci/Asian Studies student, ANU The Boss, Bubblesworth Pty Ltd (ABN: 51 095 284 361) Paul.Hampson@Pobox.Com Of course Pacman didn't influence us as kids. If it did, we'd be running around in darkened rooms, popping pills and listening to repetitive music. -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.1/au/ -----------------------------------------------------------
Paul TBBle Hampson wrote:
I don't think it makes an awful lot of sense to keep this in the main FreeRADIUS tree, since I pretty much expect to be (for the moment) the only one using it.
I always build FreeRADIUS with the command "dpkg-buildpackage", so I'm very happy to have the debian files in the main tree.
True, and I plan to keep them there.
However, I expect you want to build a version for local use, not for distribution, and so you don't want the code that disables OpenSSL-using modules and removes the RFCs with the non-DFSG copyright etc.
Yes, you're completely right.
If you _do_ want that, and want whatever's in my tree but not yet in Debian, you'll be able to get to my tree as a repository once we are using something that's better-distributed than CVS.
Ok, I understand better the reasons now. -- Nicolas Baradakis
Paul TBBle Hampson <Paul.Hampson@Pobox.com> wrote:
If you _do_ want that, and want whatever's in my tree but not yet in Debian, you'll be able to get to my tree as a repository once we are using something that's better-distributed than CVS.
$ monotone push montone.freeradius.org org.freeradius.cvs.paul_hampson :) You can even host your private branches on the public repository, without affecting anyone else. Alan DeKok.
On Sat, Sep 17, 2005 at 09:36:56PM -0400, Alan DeKok wrote:
Paul TBBle Hampson <Paul.Hampson@Pobox.com> wrote:
If you _do_ want that, and want whatever's in my tree but not yet in Debian, you'll be able to get to my tree as a repository once we are using something that's better-distributed than CVS.
$ monotone push montone.freeradius.org org.freeradius.cvs.paul_hampson
:) You can even host your private branches on the public repository, without affecting anyone else.
Oh, that's prolly better. Makes sure that if I cease to be the Debian maintainer there's no chance of me forgetting to turn in my keys and source. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Paul "TBBle" Hampson, MCSE 8th year CompSci/Asian Studies student, ANU The Boss, Bubblesworth Pty Ltd (ABN: 51 095 284 361) Paul.Hampson@Pobox.Com Of course Pacman didn't influence us as kids. If it did, we'd be running around in darkened rooms, popping pills and listening to repetitive music. -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989 License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.1/au/ -----------------------------------------------------------
participants (4)
-
Alan DeKok -
Chris Parker -
Nicolas Baradakis -
Paul TBBle Hampson