Logging config to get certificate details
Hi all, We have a PEAP eduroam setup here, and I have a suspicion that not all our users are using/validating the server certificate - I know we can set the clients up to not use certificates and they can still connect fine. (I'm not completely clear on the PEAP process and whether the clients are still using the server cert but aren't validating it, or whether no cert is used at all in this case). So what I'd like to find out is if I can set the server logging up to find out about the certificates used by each client - whether a cert is being requested, and if so, whether the certificate is being validated by the clients. I know this is primarily a client issue, but I'm looking for signs of this from the server so I can see how widespread this is. I've tried auth_goodpass/auth_badpass (no luck), I'm not sure where next to look on this - does anyone have any advice? thanks (again) in advance Jim Potter
On Mar 25, 2019, at 4:53 AM, Jim Potter <j.potter@bathspa.ac.uk> wrote:
We have a PEAP eduroam setup here, and I have a suspicion that not all our users are using/validating the server certificate - I know we can set the clients up to not use certificates and they can still connect fine. (I'm not completely clear on the PEAP process and whether the clients are still using the server cert but aren't validating it, or whether no cert is used at all in this case).
You can't tell what the client is doing. The server sends the certs to the client, and the client either validates them, or ignores them. It doesn't tell the server what it's doing.
So what I'd like to find out is if I can set the server logging up to find out about the certificates used by each client - whether a cert is being requested, and if so, whether the certificate is being validated by the clients. I know this is primarily a client issue, but I'm looking for signs of this from the server so I can see how widespread this is. I've tried auth_goodpass/auth_badpass (no luck), I'm not sure where next to look on this - does anyone have any advice?
This information is available only on the client. The client doesn't tell anyone else what it's doing. Alan DeKok.
Hi Alan, Thanks for the quick reply! So doesn't the client return a PEAP request containing the MSCHAPv2 request encrypted using the server certificate? My hope was that if a client device wasn't using a cert at all, I could see the format of the reply or something similar... but then if the clients are using whatever cert is sent out, but not validating it, that wouldn't show up. OK, so, plan B - if I set up a rogue access point (FreeRadius WPE or similar with a self signed certificate), I could see who connects regardless of the dubious cert, then chase them up. Would that work? thanks again, Jim On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 08:55, Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com> wrote:
On Mar 25, 2019, at 4:53 AM, Jim Potter <j.potter@bathspa.ac.uk> wrote:
We have a PEAP eduroam setup here, and I have a suspicion that not all
our
users are using/validating the server certificate - I know we can set the clients up to not use certificates and they can still connect fine. (I'm not completely clear on the PEAP process and whether the clients are still using the server cert but aren't validating it, or whether no cert is used at all in this case).
You can't tell what the client is doing.
The server sends the certs to the client, and the client either validates them, or ignores them. It doesn't tell the server what it's doing.
So what I'd like to find out is if I can set the server logging up to find out about the certificates used by each client - whether a cert is being requested, and if so, whether the certificate is being validated by the clients. I know this is primarily a client issue, but I'm looking for signs of this from the server so I can see how widespread this is. I've tried auth_goodpass/auth_badpass (no luck), I'm not sure where next to look on this - does anyone have any advice?
This information is available only on the client. The client doesn't tell anyone else what it's doing.
Alan DeKok.
- List info/subscribe/unsubscribe? See http://www.freeradius.org/list/users.html
-- thanks, Jim Potter User Platform Engineer IT Services Bath Spa University T: 01225 876220 Visit www.bathspa.ac.uk Join us on: Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/bath.spa.university>| Twitter <https://twitter.com/#!/BathSpaUni>| YouTube <http://www.youtube.com/BathSpaUniversity>| LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/bath-spa-university> Newton Park, Bath, BA2 9BN Think before you print Disclaimer If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system. Any views or opinions expressed in personal emails are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Bath Spa University. Neither Bath Spa University nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for viruses.
On Mar 25, 2019, at 5:06 AM, Jim Potter <j.potter@bathspa.ac.uk> wrote:
So doesn't the client return a PEAP request containing the MSCHAPv2 request encrypted using the server certificate?
No. PEAP essentially sets up a TLS connection between the two endpoints. It then sends MS-CHAPv2 data inside of the TLS tunnel. The MS-CHAPv2 is protected via the TLS protocol. It is *not* "encrypted using the server certificate".
My hope was that if a client device wasn't using a cert at all,
The client device gets the server cert sent to it by the server, as part of the TLS exchange. The client device is free to *ignore* this server certificate.
I could see the format of the reply or something similar... but then if the clients are using whatever cert is sent out, but not validating it, that wouldn't show up.
Yes.
OK, so, plan B - if I set up a rogue access point (FreeRadius WPE or similar with a self signed certificate), I could see who connects regardless of the dubious cert, then chase them up. Would that work?
People will connect if they configure it manually. Which most won't. There really isn't any point in doing this. You won't get any useful information from it. Alan DeKok.
Hi Alan, OK, thanks for the advice here. Historically, everyone has set up their devices manually, and I have a suspicion that some have been told to ignore the certificate, so if I do set up a rogue access point, this WILL catch anyone with this configured, correct? cheers, Jim On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 09:15, Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com> wrote:
On Mar 25, 2019, at 5:06 AM, Jim Potter <j.potter@bathspa.ac.uk> wrote:
So doesn't the client return a PEAP request containing the MSCHAPv2 request encrypted using the server certificate?
No.
PEAP essentially sets up a TLS connection between the two endpoints. It then sends MS-CHAPv2 data inside of the TLS tunnel.
The MS-CHAPv2 is protected via the TLS protocol. It is *not* "encrypted using the server certificate".
My hope was that if a client device wasn't using a cert at all,
The client device gets the server cert sent to it by the server, as part of the TLS exchange. The client device is free to *ignore* this server certificate.
I could see the format of the reply or something similar... but then if the clients are using whatever cert is sent out, but not validating it, that wouldn't show up.
Yes.
OK, so, plan B - if I set up a rogue access point (FreeRadius WPE or similar with a self signed certificate), I could see who connects regardless of the dubious cert, then chase them up. Would that work?
People will connect if they configure it manually. Which most won't.
There really isn't any point in doing this. You won't get any useful information from it.
Alan DeKok.
- List info/subscribe/unsubscribe? See http://www.freeradius.org/list/users.html
-- thanks, Jim Potter User Platform Engineer IT Services Bath Spa University T: 01225 876220 Visit www.bathspa.ac.uk Join us on: Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/bath.spa.university>| Twitter <https://twitter.com/#!/BathSpaUni>| YouTube <http://www.youtube.com/BathSpaUniversity>| LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/bath-spa-university> Newton Park, Bath, BA2 9BN Think before you print Disclaimer If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system. Any views or opinions expressed in personal emails are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Bath Spa University. Neither Bath Spa University nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for viruses.
On Mar 25, 2019, at 5:29 AM, Jim Potter <j.potter@bathspa.ac.uk> wrote:
OK, thanks for the advice here. Historically, everyone has set up their devices manually, and I have a suspicion that some have been told to ignore the certificate, so if I do set up a rogue access point, this WILL catch anyone with this configured, correct?
Maybe. Alan DeKok.
I'll let you know how I get on... cheers Jim On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 09:31, Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com> wrote:
On Mar 25, 2019, at 5:29 AM, Jim Potter <j.potter@bathspa.ac.uk> wrote:
OK, thanks for the advice here. Historically, everyone has set up their devices manually, and I have a suspicion that some have been told to
ignore
the certificate, so if I do set up a rogue access point, this WILL catch anyone with this configured, correct?
Maybe.
Alan DeKok.
- List info/subscribe/unsubscribe? See http://www.freeradius.org/list/users.html
-- thanks, Jim Potter User Platform Engineer IT Services Bath Spa University T: 01225 876220 Visit www.bathspa.ac.uk Join us on: Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/bath.spa.university>| Twitter <https://twitter.com/#!/BathSpaUni>| YouTube <http://www.youtube.com/BathSpaUniversity>| LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/bath-spa-university> Newton Park, Bath, BA2 9BN Think before you print Disclaimer If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system. Any views or opinions expressed in personal emails are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Bath Spa University. Neither Bath Spa University nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for viruses.
participants (2)
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Alan DeKok -
Jim Potter