Hi to everybody, On Tue, 13 Sep 2011, Alan DeKok wrote:

2394263740 wrote:

...

Sometime, I need disable a user account in mysql database. And then enable it later on after some check complete.

Can you please advise how to toggle such status?

See the MySQL documentation for how to write to rows in MySQL.

It's not just a matter of knowing how write rows in MySQL (that by itself doesn't change the enable/disable status) but also knowing which *column in particular* needs to be set to *what value*. Seems to me like the original poster was referring to that rather than some general MySQL syntax issue.

...

There're may be multiple solutions, please advise them all, so I can choose a one most fit the needs.

Try harder.

Are you *really* sure that advices like these are helpful at all??? (Alan, I've been subscribed to this mailing list for quite a while now and I'm well aware of the fact that you're very involved concerning code maintenance which leaves less time for answering mails. Of course I can only speak on my behalf, but I'm sure your work is appreciated by all list members. But, to be honest, a suggestion like the one given above is purely ridiculous and is (almost) the same as not replying at all. Greetings, Holger

On 9/13/2011 12:09, Arran Cudbard-Bell wrote:

On 13 Sep 2011, at 20:29, rauch.holger@googlemail.com wrote:

...

Hi to everybody,

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011, Alan DeKok wrote:

...

2394263740 wrote:

...

Sometime, I need disable a user account in mysql database. And then enable it later on after some check complete.

Can you please advise how to toggle such status? See the MySQL documentation for how to write to rows in MySQL. It's not just a matter of knowing how write rows in MySQL (that by itself doesn't change the enable/disable status) but also knowing which *column in particular* needs to be set to *what value*. Seems to me like the original poster was referring to that rather than some general MySQL syntax issue. No. It's SQL, you can alter the query so that it only returns 'enabled' users. It has nothing to do with FreeRADIUS, other than possibly the location of the configuration file (raddb/sql/mysql/dialup.conf).

...

...

...

There're may be multiple solutions, please advise them all, so I can choose a one most fit the needs. Try harder. Are you *really* sure that advices like these are helpful at all??? (Alan, I've been subscribed to this mailing list for quite a while now and I'm well aware of the fact that you're very involved concerning code maintenance which leaves less time for answering mails. Of course I can only speak on my behalf, but I'm sure your work is appreciated by all list members. But, to be honest, a suggestion like the one given above is purely ridiculous and is (almost) the same as not replying at all. The point of the list is to help users who are stuck with a particular question or concept. Not for those who are too lazy to try and figure things out themselves.

Give a man a fish etc..

-Arran

Arran Cudbard-Bell a.cudbardb@freeradius.org

RADIUS - Waging war on ignorance and apathy one Access-Challenge at a time.

- List info/subscribe/unsubscribe? See http://www.freeradius.org/list/users.html So what are the most proper ways to mark a user in an sql database as either active or inactive, enabled or disabled?

Hi Arran, On Tue, 13 Sep 2011, Arran Cudbard-Bell wrote:

[...] No. It's SQL,

I didn't question it's SQL, I just said that knowing SQL all by itself is not enough.

you can alter the query so that it only returns 'enabled' users.

If you talk about altering queries, you assume that someone also has knowledge about the data model (table and column names, in particular).

It has nothing to do with FreeRADIUS,

Are you saying that table and column names are the same *in every* SQL-based RADIUS implementation? (I doubt that tables and columns share the same names accross different RADIUS implementations).

[...] The point of the list is to help users who are stuck with a particular question or concept. Not for those who are too lazy to try and figure things out themselves.

How do you really *know* the OP was "too lazy"? Maybe the documentation wasn't understood (but in this case the OP could have mentioned that in his post). IMHO, the OP made one big mistake: not pointing out clearly his own effort. On the other hand, it's also not right to infer that someone is too lazy just because he hasn't mentioned whether he has tried anything by himself. Greetings, Holger

Hi Arran, On Wed, 14 Sep 2011, Arran Cudbard-Bell wrote:

[...]

...

...

It has nothing to do with FreeRADIUS,

Are you saying that table and column names are the same *in every* SQL-based RADIUS implementation? (I doubt that tables and columns share the same names accross different RADIUS implementations).

rlm_sql doesn't care about column names, it just deals with indexes. The SQL used to get the values for those indexes is completely arbitrary, and implementation specific.

Since you mentioned rlm_sql, it *does* have something to do with FreeRADIUS, doesn't it?

[...] I'm not going to waste my time debating this with you.

So you seem to consider rethinking your own assumptions a waste of time?

The phrasing the OP used was completely inappropriate for a volunteer based support list, end of story.

Then you could have told him *exactly that* in your very first mail, couldn't you?

I have nothing against the OP,

I didn't say that, did I? Please refrain from "adding" statements to my original mail by interpreting it. When in doubt, please ask (instead of making inappropriate assumptions).

in fact if you'd checked, you'd see that i've answered a number of his other questions...

You surely did. (I didn't question your effort.)

So why you felt the need to step in and intervene is beyond me.

I decided to step in because IMHO it's inappriopriate to assume things one doesn't know or hasn't asked for (like whether the OP really was "too lazy" for RTFM or RTFW). It's just not a good way of treating people, that's all. (Besides, maybe I'm not the only with this opinion who's subscribed to this list? Ever thought about that?) Greetings, Holger

rauch.holger@googlemail.com wrote:

Since you mentioned rlm_sql, it *does* have something to do with FreeRADIUS, doesn't it?

The original question was "how do I disable users when they are stored in SQL". The only possible answer is "change the SQL database" How do you change the database? Well... you got the data *into* it in the first place, didn't you? Alan DeKok.

Hi Alan, On Wed, 14 Sep 2011, Alan DeKok wrote:

[...] Or, the OP could have read the FAQ about "disabled" users. A simple text search for "disable" would have produced an example.

Like I mentioned in my response to Arran, the OP didn't mention whether he had tried anything by himself before posting to this list. Maybe he tried it but he couldn't figure out what the example was telling him (but then he could have mentioned it in his mail)?

[...] Yes. That's the correct response to questions like "I'm too lazy to read the docs, so you need to suggest multiple ways of solving this problem".

Same like in the post to Arran: inferring that people are "too lazy" because they haven't mentioned their own effort is not right, IMHO. I'm NOT trying to protect him; all I'm asking for is to be fair to the OP and ask him about his own effort first (i.e. check his honesty). If he then admits that he really hasn't done anything you can still come up with responses like "try harder" (or, better in such a particular case, ignore his post because then it's clearly obvious that he indeed was "too lazy"). Still better (in such a case), unsubscribe him from the list. (I honestly admit that this is OT and has nothing to do with FreeRADIUS, but rather with ways of communicating with each other, especially in writing (be it mailing list, be it forums or other means of free support). Judging from my own experience, many misunderstandings can be avoided by taking the written word literaly and in case something is not mentioned, ask for it. Assuming anything without knowing for sure may be understandable (as you've probably seen quite a few of similar posts), but it doesn't necessarily mean that such an assumption is always correct.

After 10+ years on this list, I know what the next step is. "Oh, you gave me multiple solutions, but I don't want to do any of them because of ther information I've kept secret until now. Please suggest other solutions."

i.e. if you can't be bothered to do any work to help yourself, we can't be bothered either.

Please see my paragraph above. I can understand that you are fed up with having to read a post that reads so similar like the many others you probably had to read in the past. But still it's not a good idea to assume that everybody who hasn't included detailed information about his own effort actually is "too lazy" reading the docs (it may apply in quite a few cases, but not in all of them).

That should probably be in the FAQ, or in the auto-sig for this list.

IMHO, the auto-sig would be the more appropriate place since then it would be visible in the very first mail one gets after having been properly subscribed to this list. A pointer to the mailing list guidelines might also be useful.

[...] Explain *why* it's ridiculous. I'd love to know.

- It doesn't provide any information (as it's far too general) - It won't "educate" the OP to actually "behave better" the next time (since - in his point of view - he's most likely not aware of the fact that one has to clearly point out his own effort(s) in order to make it obvious to all list members that he indeed "tried hard enough" to solve his problem (in the sense of having read the available FAQ and other docs and not having found ways of solving the particular problem in there) IMHO, a possible way of educating such users is to tell them once that they are supposed to include information on as to what steps they've taken to solve the problem on their own. If the OP fails to do so three times, unsubscribe him from the list with a clear message in the unsubscription mail.

[...] Cue crying about how mean Alan is.

Like I mentioned in my first post: I highly value your technical knowledge about and work for FreeRADIUS. But what's the use of a statement like the one you gave above??? I don't consider you "mean" (since I didn't say it). All I'm saying is this: it would probably make everybody's life easier if less assumptions, interpretations, etc. took place on mailing lists. Please think about it. (I didn't "cry", either. It would really help if you take people's concerns seriously. Please try to take that into account.) TIA & greetings, Holger

On 9/14/2011 8:46, Alan DeKok wrote:

rauch.holger@googlemail.com wrote:

...

Like I mentioned in my response to Arran, the OP didn't mention whether he had tried anything by himself before posting to this list. Maybe he tried it but he couldn't figure out what the example was telling him (but then he could have mentioned it in his mail)? Exactly. If he can't be bothered explaining what he's done, I can't be bothered to explain what he needs to do.

...

Same like in the post to Arran: inferring that people are "too lazy" because they haven't mentioned their own effort is not right, IMHO. After 10 years of this, experience has given me reason for my opinions. If they don't say they did anything, 90% of the time it's because they didn't do anything.

...

I'm NOT trying to protect him; all I'm asking for is to be fair to the OP and ask him about his own effort first (i.e. check his honesty). If he then admits that he really hasn't done anything you can still come up with responses like "try harder" (or, better in such a particular case, ignore his post because then it's clearly obvious that he indeed was "too lazy"). Still better (in such a case), unsubscribe him from the list. I don't unsubscribe people for being lazy. The only people who've been unsubscribed are spammers.

As for helping him to ask good questions... no. This isn't a commercial support list. If he can't be bothered explaining what he's done, I can't be bothered to explain what he needs to do.

...

Please see my paragraph above. I can understand that you are fed up with having to read a post that reads so similar like the many others you probably had to read in the past. But still it's not a good idea to assume that everybody who hasn't included detailed information about his own effort actually is "too lazy" reading the docs (it may apply in quite a few cases, but not in all of them). Or, they're too lazy to say "I tried X, but it didn't work."

But really, when a post says "I want to do X, give me multiple ways how", the *only* possible conclusion is that he's done nothing, and wants to be spoon-fed. No other conclusion is supported by the evidence. I've noticed that many features in freeradius are implemented unintuitively. Groups are one example. the various rlm modules are another example. Furthermore there's alot of extensive documentation to filter through. Asking a general question in hopes of narrowing the search parameters isn't unreasonable. a good answer to this particular question would have been "look into creating a disabled group, or adding an rlm_sql column to enable or disable users. you should read the man rlm_sql and look into the files in the sql folder to see what the existing queries look like". it narrows the search paramters to one folder and one man-page without taking forever and enables the OP to find the answer quickly and easily. I've gotten similar answers before, and used them to their fullest.

...

- It won't "educate" the OP to actually "behave better" the next time (since - in his point of view - he's most likely not aware of the fact that one has to clearly point out his own effort(s) in order to make it obvious to all list members that he indeed "tried hard enough" to solve his problem (in the sense of having read the available FAQ and other docs and not having found ways of solving the particular problem in there) Right... because the near daily pointers to the FAQ on this list, and in the docs, and on the web site aren't enough. People have to be spoon fed.

...

IMHO, a possible way of educating such users is to tell them once that they are supposed to include information on as to what steps they've taken to solve the problem on their own. Like it says in the FAQ, and all of the other documentation.

The solution to the OP being lazy is for *me* to do more work? Nonsense.

...

Like I mentioned in my first post: I highly value your technical knowledge about and work for FreeRADIUS. But what's the use of a statement like the one you gave above??? You're excusing someone who's too lazy to help himself, and are asking me to do more work to help him.

If you're such an altruist, go help him yourself. Cut& paste the text from the FAQ or "man" page explaining what he has to do. You'll quickly realize it's a waste of time.

Really, I truly mean you should do that. Spend a few months trying hard to help people who can't be bothered to read the documentation. There is *very* little you can do to educate them.

...

I don't consider you "mean" (since I didn't say it). All I'm saying is this: it would probably make everybody's life easier if less assumptions, interpretations, etc. took place on mailing lists. Please think about it. (I didn't "cry", either. It would really help if you take people's concerns seriously. Please try to take that into account.) I take their concerns seriously. Look at the deluge of features and bug fixes that go in based on peoples email to this list.

Alan DeKok. - List info/subscribe/unsubscribe? See http://www.freeradius.org/list/users.html

...

I've noticed that many features in freeradius are implemented unintuitively. Groups are one example. the various rlm modules are another example. Furthermore there's alot of extensive documentation to filter through. Asking a general question in hopes of narrowing the search parameters isn't unreasonable. a good answer to this particular question would have been "look into creating a disabled group, or adding an rlm_sql column to enable or disable users. you should read the man rlm_sql and look into the files in the sql folder to see what the existing queries look like". it narrows the search paramters to one folder and one man-page without taking forever and enables the OP to find the answer quickly and easily. I've gotten similar answers before, and used them to their fullest.

Please document the things that you like to see documented further at: http://wiki.freeradius.org/RFA (Requests for Articles) Arran Cudbard-Bell a.cudbardb@freeradius.org Betelwiki, Betelwiki, Betelwiki.... http://wiki.freeradius.org/ !

Marinko Tarlac wrote:

Imagine that you have 5 000 disabled accounts and that you constantly rejecting them over and over again...

Better option is to create specific group (for example disabled_accounts with specific IP Pool) and assign users to this group when you want to block them.

Exactly... Perhaps this is even in the FAQ, for the OP to read?? Alan DeKok.