Active Directory authentication question
Dear, I have several Windows 7 clients over WiFi autheticating throug EAP-TLS to a Freeradius 2.1 service against a local MySQL database, it works OK. Now I have to change the authentication from MySQL to a remote Active Directory on a Windows 2012 server. Because I don't know so much about Windows world, I need to know if I have to use NTLM, LDAP or Kerberos in order to authenticate against the remote AD. Thanks a lot !!! Roberto
Roberto Carna wrote:
Dear, I have several Windows 7 clients over WiFi autheticating throug EAP-TLS to a Freeradius 2.1 service against a local MySQL database, it works OK.
EAP-TLS doesn't use MySQL for storing credentials. Everything is in the certificate.
Now I have to change the authentication from MySQL to a remote Active Directory on a Windows 2012 server.
FreeRADIUS is an authentication server. MySQL is not. It's a database. Using the correct terminology menas it's easier to come up with a solution. Using the wrong terminology means you're lost, and you can't find a solution.
Because I don't know so much about Windows world, I need to know if I have to use NTLM, LDAP or Kerberos in order to authenticate against the remote AD.
For MS-CHAP and PEAP, you use ntlm. You don't have any other choice. For EAP-TLS, you don't use AD or MySQL. Alan DeKok.
Sorry, so I'm a bit confused... I'm using Windows 7 clients for accesing the WiFi network through EAP-TLS with X.509 certificates. But in this way, I could see that I can authenticate users or hosts...if I choose users, I can see a dialog box to fill user and password and I suppose they are checked against MySQL database (because I see the query in debug mode). Is this correct or not ??? And finally, if I use EAP-TLS with X.509 certificates, do you mean I don't need to use the authentication against the active directory database ??? Maybe this is easier to me because I've put EAP-TLS to work. Thanks a lot, Roberto 2013/9/18 Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com>:
Roberto Carna wrote:
Dear, I have several Windows 7 clients over WiFi autheticating throug EAP-TLS to a Freeradius 2.1 service against a local MySQL database, it works OK.
EAP-TLS doesn't use MySQL for storing credentials. Everything is in the certificate.
Now I have to change the authentication from MySQL to a remote Active Directory on a Windows 2012 server.
FreeRADIUS is an authentication server. MySQL is not. It's a database.
Using the correct terminology menas it's easier to come up with a solution. Using the wrong terminology means you're lost, and you can't find a solution.
Because I don't know so much about Windows world, I need to know if I have to use NTLM, LDAP or Kerberos in order to authenticate against the remote AD.
For MS-CHAP and PEAP, you use ntlm. You don't have any other choice.
For EAP-TLS, you don't use AD or MySQL.
Alan DeKok. - List info/subscribe/unsubscribe? See http://www.freeradius.org/list/users.html
On 18 Sep 2013, at 15:39, Roberto Carna <robertocarna36@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry, so I'm a bit confused...
I'm using Windows 7 clients for accesing the WiFi network through EAP-TLS with X.509 certificates. But in this way, I could see that I can authenticate users or hosts...if I choose users, I can see a dialog box to fill user and password and I suppose they are checked against MySQL database (because I see the query in debug mode). Is this correct or not ???
MySQL can be used to retrieve additional attributes associated with a given user/host. It can even perform lookups based on fields in the cert presented, but it can't be used to store X.509 certificate data.
And finally, if I use EAP-TLS with X.509 certificates, do you mean I don't need to use the authentication against the active directory database ??? Maybe this is easier to me because I've put EAP-TLS to work.
No, the easier way is to complete the certificate chain using the signing cert which created the client certs in the first place. This needs to be made available to the EAP-TLS module. -Arran Arran Cudbard-Bell <a.cudbardb@freeradius.org> FreeRADIUS Development Team
Arran, I have a private CA and I've created the server and client certs of course...and I've generated the .p12 cert (includind the CA cert) to install in my Windows 7 clients....it works OK. What I mean is that EAP-TLS is easier to me than AD authentication at this point, because I've just put it to work...and if I want to use AD auth I have to take EAP-TLS out and start again with NTLM / AD authentication....is it OK ??? Regards 2013/9/18 Arran Cudbard-Bell <a.cudbardb@freeradius.org>:
On 18 Sep 2013, at 15:39, Roberto Carna <robertocarna36@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry, so I'm a bit confused...
I'm using Windows 7 clients for accesing the WiFi network through EAP-TLS with X.509 certificates. But in this way, I could see that I can authenticate users or hosts...if I choose users, I can see a dialog box to fill user and password and I suppose they are checked against MySQL database (because I see the query in debug mode). Is this correct or not ???
MySQL can be used to retrieve additional attributes associated with a given user/host. It can even perform lookups based on fields in the cert presented, but it can't be used to store X.509 certificate data.
And finally, if I use EAP-TLS with X.509 certificates, do you mean I don't need to use the authentication against the active directory database ??? Maybe this is easier to me because I've put EAP-TLS to work.
No, the easier way is to complete the certificate chain using the signing cert which created the client certs in the first place. This needs to be made available to the EAP-TLS module.
-Arran
Arran Cudbard-Bell <a.cudbardb@freeradius.org> FreeRADIUS Development Team
- List info/subscribe/unsubscribe? See http://www.freeradius.org/list/users.html
On 09/18/2013 11:01 AM, Roberto Carna wrote:
Arran, I have a private CA and I've created the server and client certs of course...and I've generated the .p12 cert (includind the CA cert) to install in my Windows 7 clients....it works OK.
What I mean is that EAP-TLS is easier to me than AD authentication at this point, because I've just put it to work...and if I want to use AD auth I have to take EAP-TLS out and start again with NTLM / AD authentication....is it OK ???
I think you have a misconception. The client decides what type of authentication mechanism it's going to use. The radius server should be able to handle a wide variety of authentication mechanisms supplied by a diverse range of clients. So in your case you've got one mechanism working, great, now add support for another, when you're done your radius server can handle 2 mechanisms. Keep iterating on this basic cycle until your server supports the range of clients you need to support. -- John
What I mean is that EAP-TLS is easier to me than AD authentication at this point, because I've just put it to work...and if I want to use AD auth I have to take EAP-TLS out and start again with NTLM / AD authentication....is it OK ???
Roberto, you don't have to remove EAP-TLS to support NTLM/MS-CHAPv2 authentication. What you can do in eap.conf is specify which EAP type you want to use by default. If you prefer EAP-TLS, you can specify default_eap_type = tls. But if the client does not support that and asks for EAP-TTLS or PEAP instead, then, if your server is configured correctly, it can support those additional types too. For NTLM authentication, what you *do* need is to add your FreeRADIUS machine to the Windows 2012 domain. Since you're on a flavour of Unix/Linux, you need to install Samba on your Linux box and configure it to talk to the Windows 2012 domain controller (via Kerberos). You may want to read this page, which describes how we've made authentication against Active Directory work with PEAP (specifically PEAP with EAP-MSCHAPv2) and EAP-TTLS with EAP-MSCHAPv2: http://confluence.diamond.ac.uk/display/PAAUTH/Using+Active+Directory+as+aut... We don't use PEAP and don't have any test clients that support PEAP, but EAP-TTLS/EAP-MSCHAPv2 works splendidly (which is good enough for our purposes and is widely supported by Windows clients). You can use rad_eap_test (there is information about this on the link above, including how to build the binary) to specify which EAP method you want to use and then which inner authentication to use (where applicable). So you can leave your existing setup (I assume default_eap_type is 'tls') alone and still test your NTLM authencation. Folks, feel free to correct... but that's what worked here. Stefan -- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee or an authorised recipient of the addressee please notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or attached to the e-mail. Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the individual and not necessarily of Diamond Light Source Ltd. Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail or any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message. Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679). Registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Diamond House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom
Thanks Stepahn for all your important help. Regards, Roberto 2013/9/19 <stefan.paetow@diamond.ac.uk>:
What I mean is that EAP-TLS is easier to me than AD authentication at this point, because I've just put it to work...and if I want to use AD auth I have to take EAP-TLS out and start again with NTLM / AD authentication....is it OK ???
Roberto, you don't have to remove EAP-TLS to support NTLM/MS-CHAPv2 authentication. What you can do in eap.conf is specify which EAP type you want to use by default. If you prefer EAP-TLS, you can specify default_eap_type = tls. But if the client does not support that and asks for EAP-TTLS or PEAP instead, then, if your server is configured correctly, it can support those additional types too.
For NTLM authentication, what you *do* need is to add your FreeRADIUS machine to the Windows 2012 domain. Since you're on a flavour of Unix/Linux, you need to install Samba on your Linux box and configure it to talk to the Windows 2012 domain controller (via Kerberos).
You may want to read this page, which describes how we've made authentication against Active Directory work with PEAP (specifically PEAP with EAP-MSCHAPv2) and EAP-TTLS with EAP-MSCHAPv2:
http://confluence.diamond.ac.uk/display/PAAUTH/Using+Active+Directory+as+aut...
We don't use PEAP and don't have any test clients that support PEAP, but EAP-TTLS/EAP-MSCHAPv2 works splendidly (which is good enough for our purposes and is widely supported by Windows clients).
You can use rad_eap_test (there is information about this on the link above, including how to build the binary) to specify which EAP method you want to use and then which inner authentication to use (where applicable). So you can leave your existing setup (I assume default_eap_type is 'tls') alone and still test your NTLM authencation.
Folks, feel free to correct... but that's what worked here.
Stefan
-- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee or an authorised recipient of the addressee please notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or attached to the e-mail. Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the individual and not necessarily of Diamond Light Source Ltd. Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail or any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message. Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679). Registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Diamond House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom
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Roberto Carna wrote:
Sorry, so I'm a bit confused...
Because you're unfamiliar with the correct terminology, and with how things really work. To recap: EAP-TLS uses certificates to identify users. And nothing else. No passwords, etc. AD is a database. MySQL is a database. They store user information. They don't authenticate users. FreeRADIUS is an authentication server. Where necessary, it pulls user information from a database. It also returns user profiles to a WiFI AP. e.g. VLAN, etc. Alan DeKok.
participants (5)
-
Alan DeKok -
Arran Cudbard-Bell -
John Dennis -
Roberto Carna -
stefan.paetow＠diamond.ac.uk